July 16, 2005

Soldier stages wounding to avoid return to Iraq

A young Marine who feared returning to Iraq persuaded his cousin to shoot him in the leg, then told police he was hit by random gang gunfire, authorities said.

The shooting early Saturday on Chicago's Northwest Side was meant to keep 19-year-old Moises Hernandez from going back to Iraq, prosecutors said.

Now Hernandez faces a felony charge of filing a false police report. He is back with his unit at Camp Pendleton in California where the Marines are investigating.

A Marines spokesman said Hernandez' unit returned June 5 from a six-month deployment that included one month in Iraq.
This shows just how we've got things under control. The insurgents are in their "last throes" and freedom is on the march.

> MORE <


At 7/16/2005 4:18 PM, Blogger Dave said...

One Marine, that's your proof of the failure of our military?

At 7/16/2005 6:17 PM, Blogger diehard said...

Hey, at least he doesn't have to go back!

At 7/16/2005 6:30 PM, Blogger Dave said...

For the war Karl Rove arranged, right?

At 7/16/2005 7:56 PM, Blogger The Inside Dope said...

Uh Dave... you must have an active imagination. I didn't say this was "proof" of anything, much less the "failure" of our military.

And once again, for some queer reason, you insist on confusing the utter failure of our leadership and Bush actions and policies with the troops which have no choice but to carry them out.

I think you're still a bit confused. You're a very tough case of Bush propagandaitis. You've swallowed the Bush/Rove kool ade and can't seem to snap out of it.

You still think Iraq had something to do with 9-11 and you still think that Bush and our troops are the same thing. And another fallacy follows from that one, that one can't point out the utter failure, recklessness, and incompetence involved in the invasion of Iraq and in partiular the arogant belief that we didn't need to plan for the aftermath because it would be a "cakewalk" without somehow being "against" our troops.

I'll make it simple. Our troops are NOT our government. It is more supportive of our troops to try to save them from a war effort started and perpetuated with lies and deceptions and incompetence. That should be easy enough to understand. Please try.

The goofy idea that if you loath Bush and the war that you're somehow "anti-troops" is one of the slimiest tactics the Bushites continue to use and folks like you who continue to believe such crap are useful tools for them.

You're being used like a rented mule Dave.

At 7/16/2005 9:37 PM, Blogger Dave said...

First of all I was refering to hiehardon's post on a different thread. And B)Where to go from here? You've made it perfectly clear many times over and over that Bush lied and he's an idiot.
Now, what do you propose doing? You always avoid this question as you nor your minority party has any answers, just the ability to bitch and whine that Rove is a felon and Bush is just a big Mr. Stinkypoopinpants.

And back to the Marine, recruits cry in boot camp because they don't like it and want to go home, it's a tough business and the marines are better off if he doesn't go back.

At 7/16/2005 10:10 PM, Blogger diehard said...

So your saying that that the mess in Iraq is something we should continue?
I will even agree with you Dave if you will agree that we never should have disregarded what Bush the elder, Colin Powell, Norman Scwartscooff, and many other military experts agreed upon that going in and occupying a Middle Eastern country was ill-advised at best.
What do I agree with you on? Well it will be very hard to pull out and leave Iraq in a weakend state that it is in. For most of Sadamm Hussein's political career he was our guy in that part of the world.
But whether we pull out now or ten years from now we could very well get the same result.Unless the Iraqis can manage a peacful transfer of power and maintain civilization on their own.
But if you slowly start to pull out you will still create a
The U.N. does not want to be involved but it should be.
I think more Iraqis should be doing the work over there that we are paying Americans. Good sound economic policy worked in Northern Ireland.
But congress needs to grow some some caonees and hold this administration's feet to the fire.
For Rove and Cheny to send Bush out in front of the cameras every couple of months to say that things are going good over there isnt enough.
Republican Senators like Chuck Hagel are starting to ask whats the plan here?
No, Bush is going to have to do better than that.
Especially if you have a family member over there that has been for a long time.

At 7/16/2005 10:20 PM, Blogger politicalwind said...

I second the remarks made by Representative DieHard from the 72nd District. And I applaud Republican Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska. This war has become a great example of our current cowboy go-it-alone foreign policy.
We need a better plan, a better commander in chief and a new plan for a genuine foeign policy -- not a Texas style barbeque.

At 7/17/2005 8:06 AM, Blogger maybesomeday said...

I agree with Diehard and PoliticalWind.

Dave, once again you look like a big whiner. You have no real arguement of substance for any of the above so you just try to say the other side is complaining. Well they have effectively burst your balloon.

So what do you say now? Rove is innocent? I think not. The scandal surrounding Karl Rove will make Bush start to back away. This smells too much like Watergate to many. Rove's sole purpose in the Bush family power structure was to get them elected. Now that he has done as much as he can constitutionally for all the Bush family he's lost his usefullness and they can discard him like yesterday's newspaper.

At 7/17/2005 8:55 AM, Blogger Dave said...

Back away from what? Rove did nothing wrong and he stays. It appears as though you have not been paying attention to recent develoements in this case.

Yes, we should stay. There is no alternative.

At 7/17/2005 2:08 PM, Blogger QuadCityImages said...

The point is that Bush made a colossal mistake in going to Iraq, and in fact much of his presidency has been a mistake. He wasted all the goodwill we had after September 11th by using those 3,000 deaths to invade a country that had nothing to do with them. By never saying "War in Iraq" without attaching the words 9/11, September 11th, World Trade Center, or Terrorists, they managed to convince the 51% most easily-convinced of us that what we were doing is right and just.

Before 9/11 his popularity was already low, and scandals were already cropping up. Then we entered the era of criticism = treason = Guantanamo and now there's scandals every hour but nobody hears or talks about them. EVERY one of the Bush scandals is worse than Whitewater or Monica-gate.

What scares me about Bush and the country in general, is that if ever I saw a president that had earned a loss in an election, it was Bush. He didn't do his job. If you hire someone to mow your lawn, and instead he burglarizes your house and kills your neighbor, you don't hire him back again. Yet that's what we did. Someday we will be ashamed of this, just as we are now of internment camps and slavery.

At 7/17/2005 4:16 PM, Blogger The Inside Dope said...

I'm surprised to hear that you have absolutely no faith in Monkey Boy's leadership.

Otherwise, why would you incessantly plead with the Democrats to somehow provide a solution to the miserable morrass of death and destruction Chimpy has led us into?

The fact remains that the President of the United States and his cabinet are the ones who are 100% responsible for leading us into Iraq with no sane plans in place. (and yes, Dems foolishly were stampeded into voting for the war because they're spineless as well)

Bush and his crew are responsible for the arrogance of their policies that has led to us being mired in an endless meat-grinder ala Viet Nam, and for the fact that only a handful of countries (and shrinking) are willing to back us.

Given those facts, why in the hell do you constantly whine for the Democrats to provide the leadership that Bush and his irresponsible ideological idiots lack?

Why in the hell is it the Democrats job to fix Republican fuck ups?

But, once again, AS ALWAYS, it will eventually be left to a democratic administration to fix the inept bungling of the the previous REPUBLICAN administrations which has led the country into economic peril and completely bungled ill-considered foreign adventures in the name of one thing... MONEY.

You can whine all you want for the Dems to save your bacon, but the fact remains that it's YOUR party's leaders who have made such a cluster-fu*k out of everything they've touched. Why don't you go to your own blog or other right wing sites and demand that the people who have drug us to this state actually fix the problem??

Stop expecting the Dems to come to your rescue ever damn time!

At 7/17/2005 5:33 PM, Blogger Dave said...

I don't need your solutions, my point is you have none. Who was President when Vietnam started?And when is as always? You must have gone to public school, your history is not based in reality.

At 7/17/2005 8:37 PM, Blogger theheadusher said...

"...queer reason..."

Is this somehow funny to you DOPE?

At 7/18/2005 12:35 AM, Blogger The Inside Dope said...

HU... you're 12 right? Now it all seems to make sense.

At 7/18/2005 12:51 AM, Blogger The Inside Dope said...

And Dave,
As I recall history, it was Nixon that escalated the war in Viet Nam, and a Republican named Henry Kissinger had a little something to do with it too.

Between them they were responsible for thousands of lives lost in trying to find a way to declare victory and get the hell out.

Which by the way, sounds like a good idea to be planning for in Iraq.

And lemme hip you to something called politics.

When one party is in complete control of all branches of government and they're making a perfect disaster out of the country and foreign policy and using lies and rank deception to drag us into a folly of a war, and then using massive media resources to try to tell citizens that everything is great, Bush is a great leader, the invasion was justified somehow, and things are going well and we're right on track, then it become extremely important to those of us who still have a working relationship with reality and feel it's important to the country's well-being to rebut and counter the relentless and massive stream of lies, misinformation, spin, and general propaganda.

It's crucial to point out that the Emperor has no clothes, that we're being duped, and to attempt to get that message out to all the people who have been deceived and duped into believing blatant falsehoods, such as yourself and to try to jar those like yourself who have painted yourself into an intellectually dishonest and psychologically troubling position of trying to excuse and defend every action of this mis-administration no matter how blatant the crimes are, no matter how far afield you have to go intellectually, no matter how much you have to disregard simple common sense and reality.

Hell yes we're going to bitch and bitch and bitch some more. I mean, when someone's pissing on your leg, you tend to want to say something about it.

There are many "solutions" to Iraq out there proposed by Democrats and progressives. As a matter of fact, several books have been written on the subject of how Bush and Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and all the other clowns failed miserably and what can and should be done now to try to extricate ourselves and cut our losses while ensuring that there's at least a minimum of security in Iraq after we've left.

But that's the point Dave, any discussion of "what to do" about the cluster-f*ck called Iraq would require a book. To expect anyone to lay out such a plan here is disingenous.
The situation is much too complex. Do you want to hear all about how to include Sunni's in the government and how we need to promise that when we do eventually leave the country we never should have been in to begin with, we should not leave behind any military bases? That's just the tip of the iceberg as to what will be required, and that's only one plan.

Do you want a detailed and historic treatis on the various religious and ethic factions and the dynamics involved?

The fact remains that neither Bush no anyone in top command in the administration gave a rat's ass about such details. They deserve to be impeached and imprisoned.
And the few who did try to convince them to be rational were either ignored or simply smeared.

Which brings us back to your boy Rove. He's a freaking peach, isn't he? You'd be screaming yourself hoarse if Clinton's right hand man engaged in felonys in an effort to destroy someone who revealed incovenient information about Clinton. You know it, I know it, everyone that reads this knows it.

So pipe down.

At 7/18/2005 7:32 AM, Blogger maybesomeday said...

Dave, watch what happened after McNamara stepped down about 1967. Then soon, Nixon was in charge and the death toll of our youth in the Vietnam war more than doubled in much less time.

Nixon actually thought he could win.... much like Bush does now.

Dejavu here folks.

At 7/18/2005 10:29 AM, Blogger diehard said...

Maybesomeday I dont agree with the comparison of George Bush to Nixon.
Nixon had an idea of what was going on.
Nixon was much better at foreign policy.
Nixon actually ran the Whitehouse and had an understanding of how goverment works.
I think Bush spends a lot of time riding his bicycle around.

At 7/18/2005 5:48 PM, Blogger maybesomeday said...

Diehard you make a good point. I only compare the facts of what's going on with both wars led by two different men.

Funny how Dave has not weighed in on this one. He ignores that which is too deep and too boldly factual since there is really no defense for what Bush and Rove have been and are doing to us as a country. All in the name of oil and money.....

At 7/18/2005 9:01 PM, Blogger Dave said...

You mean the deep conversation of how Iraq is Bush's Vietnam? Bush is Hitler and he invaded Iraq so his rich oil buddies can get richer? Is that the deep philosophical insight to which you refer?

Also, what Rove did was not illegal. Politics is hardball on both sides, doesn't make it right, but don't be so shocked unless things like this happen all the time. You're that naive are you?

As for dope, you have absolutely no proof of any crime anywhere. Until you do you should get back on the Daily Kos and shut your piehole. Everyone of your arguments end with "well, Bush is a liar or evil or a dumb and every one is stupid because they don't agree with the Dope...blah, blah. It's tiresome and boring.

At 7/19/2005 6:33 AM, Blogger maybesomeday said...

Dave, it's not illegal to endanger the life of our intelligence operative employees while they are doing their job? It's not illegal to destroy an investigation just for your own political games? It's not illegal to lie about how you did things, and to cheat by using privledge to open classified files so you can use the information to destroy someone for purely political reasons?

I guess what you want America to have is a dictatorship or a monarchy. Take your pick and tell me what form of government we should replace our Democracy with Dave. Obviously, you don't like the fact that Rove and Bush are getting caught red-handed on this whole mess.

I hope they both go down in flames. I am waiting for the press conference from Bush where he tries to say he's innocent - like Nixon did. Then I will know the end is near and Bush will face the music, leave town for good and go back to being a stupid frat boy cowboy on his ranch. That's a good place for Bush. Send him packing I say!!

At 7/19/2005 7:27 AM, Blogger Dave said...

If he did what you say he did it would no doubt be illegal. But....you're not paying attention. It is only your wishful thinking that clouds your judgement. Democracy is alive and well and working just fine. You moonbats over here seem to forget that all us stupid people elected Bush. Quite your crying and get yourself a real candidate. You had your chance to send him packing... AND YOU LOST!

At 7/19/2005 10:49 AM, Blogger diehard said...

Thats another thing Dave can you tell me what Federal punishments are prescribed for suppresing the vote in minority and college communities?
Because it was done in Ohio BIGTIME.
They made it diffucult to vote in many Democratic precincts.

At 7/19/2005 11:08 AM, Blogger Dave said...

...and you have no proof of that either.

At 7/19/2005 11:39 AM, Blogger diehard said...

Plenty of proof but what do you do with it?
Every branch of the goverment including the media (the 4th branch) is controled by the Republicans.

At 7/19/2005 11:51 AM, Blogger Dave said...

..what color is the sky in your world, diehard? The media? Really? If there was any proof whatsoever do think they would be jacking with this Rove bullshit?

At 7/19/2005 1:08 PM, Blogger diehard said...

The sky is blue.
The media is owned by the wealthiest people in this country who do you think they represent?
And all this Rove 'bull-hit' is an investigation being done by a Speicial Prosecuter Patrick Fitzgerald a Republican appointed by Bush 2.
Did you know that Bush 1 fired Karl Rove for leaking information?
Maybe you should subscribe to a newspaper and not get all your information from FOX News and Rush.

At 7/19/2005 4:20 PM, Blogger Dave said...

So what's your proof, just one thing.

At 7/19/2005 7:29 PM, Blogger maybesomeday said...

Dave, here is the proof - 12 hour lines or longer to vote in Ohio last fall. What the heck is that about if not to disinfranchise the voter electorate?

The Soccer moms and the wealthy can stand there two days if they want - the working class and working poor don't have a way to explain that long a wait and work absence to the person writing out their paycheck--- you dumbass.

And, if they don't work and need help from uncle sam, asses like you are the first ones to criticize them for not paying their own way. It's like the dog chasing his tail. You can't win without money and power. Unless you have an advocate. And the media has tried to keep that silenced lately.

Think about it.. The long lines in Ohio (and other states I bet) were crafted and designed to screw the worker so he/she can't vote. Thus we get stuck with chimpy to run the country and screw the middle and lower class even more and send them all off to fight his big war - on terror? ha - ha - ha it's about money baby!

Give me a break!

At 7/19/2005 8:50 PM, Blogger diehard said...

That seems to be a pattern with you Dave. When a lot of good points are made that seems to be your only responce. 'where's your proof' or 'answer the question.'etc
Then when the Dope gave you solutions you said you didnt need the Dopes answers so which is it?
Or you get angry with everybody. Hey thats cool I can understand your anger. But your mad at the wrong people.

At 7/19/2005 10:03 PM, Blogger Dave said...

Hey diehard

You never answer the questions yourself. Why is that?


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