32 innocent young people killed for no reason
When 32 innocent young Americans, full of promise and in the bloom of youth are senselessly slaughtered, a stunned nation can only ask itself why and devote it's energies to ensuring that it stops and look for ways to prevent it ever occuring again.
What happens staggers the imagination, the carnage, suffering, fear and pain, the 32 families left with an unfillable void, shock, grief that will never quite be erased, and left with nothing but memories of their bright, vital sons and daughters and left wondering just what they would have achieved had they not met such a violent end..... in Iraq.
32 young Americans have been slaughtered in Iraq over the past 10 days. Doubtless you're just as filled with horror, shock, and overwhelming sorrow for the families as you are for the victims of the Virginia Tech horror show.
posted by The Inside Dope @ 4/18/2007
41 comments
41 Comments:
Are you crazy Dope. Military men and women sign up to put themselves in harms way for whatever reason. Yes there fathers mothers are just as upset by there deaths as are the parents of the V-Tech parents, but to mistake the fact that these kids choose to not put themselves in harms way and better themselves through education is not the same thing.
Yes many military go for free education , however, they know that there is a cost of this education. That cost is to put themselves in harms way.
I think that you are a true pig for these comments. It shows your lack of responsability and the cold hearted nature that you posess. Maybe you should consider a different line of work as this is a true crime to do use these poor kids in V-Tech for your polotical gain.
Hmmm.
Pointing out the contrast between military members being killed and maimed for no reason and the national press wallows in the grief of those affected by the tragic deaths at Viginia Tech is now being a "pig". Interesting.
And is raising the fact that we seem to be discouraged from feeling any grief for the military dead, dead for no better reason than the students at VT, while the nation, prodded by 24/7 blanket wallow in victims, families, and heros, all designed to go directly to and perpetuate the emotional aspect of the tragedy, is stunned, stunned and horrified at the shootings at VT.
Yet most people weren't even AWARE that 32 soldiers had been killed in the past 10 days in Iraq, let alone shocked and grief-stricken.
And pointing that out makes me a pig, eh?
Of course, your comment is just a tortured and strained attempt to take a whack at me. It doesn't make a lot of sense, as with your other hundreds of similar attempts.
But as to you accusing me of making this point for "polotical" gain, I ask you just what I'm gaining?
Is opposing the needless killing of American troops somehow "polotical"?
If so, what political group benefits from finding a way to prevent their needless deaths?
Which political group profits from their continued slaughter?
Or is it rather simply a patriotic and American desire to put an end to a reckless and senseless policy which has led to 5 years of senseless death, grief, and has permanently scarred millions?
Please explain.
And something tells me that the many National Guard units that are being stretched to the breaking point and beyond, their tours extended, and having to go back for second and third tours of duty don't really choose to be put in harm's way either.
What's more cold hearted: Moarning the death of American troops, or saying they don't deserve people moarning for them because "they put themselves in harms' way"? Just shows how messed up the right's priorities are...
First Dope, the polotical ramifications to you are that your anti-war statements will be somehow turned into a guiding light for America. Delusions of grandeur for sure. Your tying an American tragedy where unsuspecting unarmed collage students were gunned down by a homicidal maniac to men and women that chose to put their life on the line for their country sickens me. You cheapen the lives and deaths of these brave soldiers. Our brave soldiers would not agree with your whack job reasoning.
This is exactly why this country needs to continue to use private soldiers to keep people like you from keeping us from war because of the kids dying. Our private soldiers die and not a mention gets made as people feel that these individuals know exactly what they are getting into. The same applies for our government military as well. They know the chances and for the most part they are glad to die to keep America Free.
If this country were made up of Dope’s like you we would all be speaking Japanese or German?
Dope you should change your name to Neval Chamberlain.
Amen. I agree. But the anon that made that ridiculous comment never is concerned with making sense, only trying to throw mud at me.
Of course it's far more cold-hearted to somehow think it's fine for even one more soldier to sacrifice their life in an effort to cover Bush's political backside.
We all know we're going to get the hell out of Iraq at some point in the not too distant future. The soldiers dying there now are dying for no other reason than to protect the ego of Bush and folks like the one who left that comment.
They try, laughably, of saying I was using the tragedy to score political points.
What's more political, drawing attention to the suffering and death of young people in Iraq, or supporting the senseless continuation of it until Bush can get out of office?
This blowhard no doubt was the type that spouts about supporting the troops. If I were stationed in Iraq, I sure wouldn't want this yahoo "supporting" me by insisting that I continue to be sent into a meat grinder on a daily basis for no conceivable purpose other than to buy time for an administration and president and party who have no earthly clue as to how to get themselves out of the catastrophic disaster they themselves were so hell-bent on getting us into.
It is not OK to have them die in combat. It is not the point. The truth of the matter is that the innocent are more important. Remember 9-11. Were those lives any more mornfull than other flights that went down due to mechanical failures. Yes. Each life is precious but a person that shoots at people for a living are more apt to be shot and killed. These soldiers die so that we do not have terrism in this country.
You people should be a shame to not feel sorrow for these V-Tech students.
You actually believe that having kids blown to bits by IEDs planted next to roads is keeping us safe from terrorists?
Unbelievable.
And since when have we been free from "terrorists" in this country? Isn't the guy who just killed 32 kids a terrorist?
What about the guy who blew up the Murrah federal building?
Or any of the dozens of mass murders in the U.S.? Not terror?
The sad fact is that you've drunk the Bush Kool-aid and fallen for the bunk that anything we've done has kept us safe in the slightest.
The fact of the matter is quite the opposite. Bush's actions in Iraq have made us far more vulnerable and created many times the number of people willing to attack us than if he had simply listened to reason and not zealots with some sort of misguided ideological fantasy of planting a democracy in the mid-east and controlling all that oil.
History will doubtless prove that the majority of U.S. troop fatalities were for nothing but a macho pipe-dream of a few misguided right wingers.
And how did they get away with it?
Precisely because of willing dupes like yourself.
I do feel bad for the Virginia Tech students. But there's nothing I can do about that. People are dying in Iraq for a senseless war, and there is something I can do to stop that.
There are too many people who feel that a military death is an acceptable loss. It's disgusting. Anyone else wonder why it took Bush a matter of hours to rush down to VT but has not attended one military funeral in four years, or even stopped to memorialize or pray for the over 3,000 dead American kids in Iraq? Don't get me started on Katrina.
So I'll feel bad for the VT victims, but I'm not going to go through life with blinders on because of this tragedy, much less ignore other disasters that I can do something to stop.
You forgot to mention the Bill Clinton/Janet Reno government sponsored act of domestic terrorism at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco.
That US state sponsored terrorist attack was on April 19th and many children were incinerated----I wonder why our wonderful press didn't mentioned that anniversary like they did Columbine and OKC?
Tell our troops that they are dying for nothing. I think you might be picking yourself off the ground if you tried telling them that their cause is "sensless". These brave men and women of uniform sign up for this combat. It is obvious that you have never and will never be part of this countries proud military.
Our military personell do not feel sorry for themselves. I suggest that you stop feeling sorry for them. Because you would not be brave enough to fight for your country doesn't mean that our troops are not brave enough.
Thank God that we do have brave women and men to make this country strong.
Haters are as haters do --- HATE! Please don't hate us because we don't hate America!
UrSUCHaSADsack!
God bless the HOKIES!
God bless America and VT USA.
George Bush might not be your favorite, but at least you are free to write stupid things about him all the tmie! try that in Russia!
I guess I should expect such moronic arguments without a point from someone with those views.
Oh boy, they'd punch me out, eh?
And why would that be? Would they be able to tell me why they're dying? I'd love to hear an answer that actually was rooted in reality, not just that we're fighting for "freedom" or some BS about establishing democracy, or even more laughably, that we're there to help out the average Iraqi citizen. (They're MUCH worse off now than they were under Sadaam, and say so often.The country is many times less secure and full of violence. It takes a lot to make a situation worse than it was under Sadaam.)
You obviously are expressing the typical old western movie fantasy world view of many conseravatives, those who sit on their amples asses and cheerlead the young and willing to go to their deaths and somehow get some twisted vicarious macho thrill out of it, as if they're rooting on a football team.
Of course there are many miltary families who would strongly object to the idea that their flesh and blood were snuffed out for no good reason. That's obvious. It's a thought too painful and tragic for them to possible even consider.
But that doesn't take away from the fact that I know, YOU know, and everyone with an ounce of honesty knows, that these soldiers are dying in a war without a plan, without a strategy, with no good way to an end, and above all, with no chance of any sort of traditional notion of "victory" or success, at least in terms of what the right wing fantasy of that concept was which got us into it to begin with.
Bush is doing nothing but running out the clock in order to hand off the collossal mess he's created to the next unfortunate person who has to try to extricate us from it. And we WILL get out, one way or another, of that you can be certain.
In the meantime, the brutal truth is that every life lost in Iraq by violent means is a life squandered for no reason which even approaches being worth that ultimate sacrifice.
So spare me the John Wayne act. I suggest that if you loved the troops and this country, you'd be with me and millions of others in wanting to see this brought to it's least catastrophic end and take these brave volunteers out of a deadly situation which they have been placed in by incompetent and reckless leaders.
With bright lights like the likes of the bitter blowhards above, is it any wonder that the U.S. is likely on a slow slide into oblivion.
A nation of shallow, misinformed lemmings isn't the stuff of a strong country.
I'm thinking I better turn all my dollars into euros before the U.S. collapses.
With thinking like that from the trogs above, America is destined for banana republic status. It's those attitudes that already make us a laughing stock around the world.
Such a great country, such ignorant inhabitants.
Ignorant, and worse, proud of it.
Inside: what the deluded right wing fools that argue with do not understand is that... WE WON THE WAR ALREADY! The war was won in a few days by our miltary. We are LOSING THE OCCUPATION! That is what this is. Our great men and women are acting as a police force in Iraq. Nobody knows whos side who is on till somebody starts shooting. There are only two courses of action left. Either raise the troop count to 5 or 600 thousand and truly conquer and rule. Or get the hell out and let the Iraqis fight their own civil war. It was coming sooner or later with the death of Sadaam. But there is no doubt. Our Troops did their job with skill and honor. It is not them to blame for the quagmire we're in now. The blame rests solely at the feet of George W. Bush. The worst President in our Great Nation's history.
Dope,
Your defeatest attitude is now permeating throughout OUR once proud web log. If you or your second, Oracle, were in charge of OUR great country we would all likely be speaking German.
I am glad you two "peacenicks" have no say in the victory we are achieving in the Middle East! If it was left to you two turncoats, Sadam would be running Iraq and all of the middle East. We fight for freedom and peace. No one ever won a war by surrendering!
You can speak against America and run down our President, but I would rather fight than turn tale and allow the terrorist to bring the war to Moline!
The original intent of the post still has not been disproved. I would like to add another twist to this. 32 Iraqi civilians are killed in less than 24 hours every day due to lawless violence brought on by our botched occupation. If you consider the effect that the deaths of the VT students had on this country, and then consider that this level of death is happening every day in Iraq, why should we be surprised that the Iraqi’s hate us and can easily rationalize attacking U.S. troops?
I take nothing away from the grieving of the families affected in the Virginia Tech massacre. Once again, I TAKE NOTHING AWAY FROM THE FAMILIES AFFECTED BY THE VIRGINIA TECH MASSACRE. I repeat only to satisfy the stupid. However, it is amazing the narcissism of many who deeply mourn the senseless loss of innocent life in the Unites States, but have this paternalistic attitude about how even though innocent Iraqi civilians are dying by the score they are really better off. I dare you to ask the Iraqi people if they feel better off ….
Um... I'm going to assume that comment is a joke. It's a perfect satire of the "defeatist" attitude of the right.
Defeatist because they spew nonsense and try to get the public to believe lies and spin while their policies lead our country straight to defeat, as in a broken military and economic downfall.
Anyone who continues to believe the administration's childish propaganda, which apparently numbers you, Bush, and Barney the dog, (maybe) and continues to support the absolutely senseless deaths of our troops, sent on a fool's errand in Iraq, is uninformed, heartless, and casually brutal beyond belief.
Good thing your comment is a parody.
Otherwise, good luck.
I would hardly call the fact that our Great Military won the war defeatist. I would also hardly call for doing the job right or getting the hell out of Iraq defeatist. The defeatists are the Republicans that know the Bush strategy is losing the occupation. The Republican strategy of calling anyone that disagrees with the Bush startegy "anti troop"is failing. They know they were defeated in 2006. They will be defeated in 2008. Our Military has done it's job. They deserve to come home to heroes welcome.
Dopester,
If one cannot provoke thought on the web and, specifically, the blogosphere, where the hell can it be done.
Everyone agrees the violence in beautiful Blacksburg was "senseless". Your post challenges us to determine whether the violence we unleashed when we invaded a sovereign country was "sensible violence". I guess reasonable people can disagree on that but that is forced choice presented provocatively by your post.
The only responsive comment is either to acknowledge the two are different in kind or to treat them as interchangeable, if not identical. Calling you names is not addressing the issue at all. Impugning your patriotism misses the point. Appellations to Russia suggest a medication gap.
Is one sensible and the other not? If not why not? That's the challenge you posed. I suggest they are both senseless but not equally so. The difference is some level of assumption of risk by the participants. Without a lot of thought, I can't identify the gradations of "senseless" but Blacksburg is on the left of the recent Iraq killings.
God bless America. I am proud that OUR ELECTED LEADER has stood up fo us and done the right thing. Any fool can call for retreate, but it takes the American Army to stabilize a corrupt government!
Long live our elected leader. Don't let these "lefties" get you down Mr. president!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, any fool can get us into a horrible, unwinnable deadly quagmire. But it takes a real genius to insist that we continue making the insane decision to not only continue with the same failed and doomed strategy, but to INCREASE it.
Continuing to do the same disasterous thing over and over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.
And that's the policy you are in love with.
Stop playing politics with soldiers lives and sending them to their deaths for George W. Bush's political survival.
You're no patriot. You're just a callous fool who's Hollywood delusions and lack of knowledge makes you willing to thump your chest and send people to their DEATHS in the service of some fairy tale of American invincibility.
If Bush, or any national politician, were any sort of leader, they'd be man enough to realize that the jig is up, and it's time to figure a way to cut our losses, not continue with the utterly delusional and criminally false notion that we can still somehow "win" this thing, whatever that means.
And your child-like arguments that we have to fight them or they'll be marching down the streets of Galva next week is laughable. Nice try.
When you stop an unworkable and truly horrible course and adopt a more rational one, it's not being a pussy or running away, it's called being based in reality and facing facts, not the ridiculous pie-in-the-sky crap Bush, Cheney and pals shove down your throat. They've turned into jokes.
The sooner you get that through your inch thick skulll, the better.
And your little gang of troglodytes is shrinking. How does it feel to be so terribly out of step with the rest of America and the world?
60% of Americans think Bush is a failure, and about 80% of the rest of the world think he's some sort of weird cancer on the U.S. that they can't wait to see gone.
I know this is not the forum for open debate or for diverse opinion, since everyone not marching in lockstep with Dope is called:
"child like"
"dupes"
"moronic"
"shallow, misinformed lemmings"
"trogs"
"callous fool(s)" that "spew nonsense"
" heartless, casually brutal"
"fool" etc., etc., etc. Well, yeah, we get your point.
But aside from the Middle School invective, my question is that if what you say is true that a "reckless and senseless policy" that has caused "senseless, death, grief, and has permanently scarred millions" and that "soldiers are dying (in Iraq) for no other reason (than) to protect the ego of Bush" and that 60% of public thinks Bush is a failure, why don't the Democrats just pull the plug on financing the war? Why do they have to tart their funding bills up with massive pork in order to get them passed (subsidizing spinach that actually KILLED people---please!) and setting withdrawl dates that are unacceptable to the military?
I'm afraid it is the Democrats who are "playing politics with soldier's lives"(not that this will ever be acknowledged here). If the Democrats really believe the war is lost, Democrats should stop their hypocrisy and follow Russ Feingold's policy of stopping the war NOW.
But they won't because Democrats want power more than they want to stop the war.
But please, tell me how Democrats are stopping the "reckless and senseless" policy with their current policy of being for the troops but against the war, or whatever the hell they are for/against. I have no clue. Oh yeah, it's all Bush's fault the Democrats are so feckless. Whatever.
Do tell. I can't wait.
I'll spare everyone the litany of names you and others have called me... frankly, I don't pay attention.
I thought I showed admirable restraint in how I characterized the know-nothing commenters who can only recite AM radio talking points which make no sense.
In answer to your question, it's called politics.
If you think the Democrats are stupid enough to willingly walk right into the trap everyone plainly sees the Republicans are hoping they will, then you're not so bright yourself.
If they did cut off all funding (NONE of their proposals do so, there's many, many millions available for "the troops" even if they decided not to appropriate another dime.)the Republicans would, as always, lie through their teeth and try to distort and mislead, and hide behind our soldiers, as always, by trying to suggest that this somehow is putting soldiers at increased danger. (Pure, 100%, unadulterated BS.)
I guess you've wisely given up trying to defend the actions of this administration and the Republican run country of the previous decade. Good move.
Now I ask, just which party do you think would bring this catastrophy to an end sooner, Republicans or Democrats?
I rest my case. They may not be willing or able to shut it down immediately, and it wouldn't be wise to do so. (No one is proposing we do so, by the way), but one party has a goal of trying to minimize the tremendous losses and achieve some sort of balance in the region.
The other only wants to continue doing something which has been a failure, is a failure, and will continue to fail, and which NO ONE, not even generals, think WILL work.
As usual, the Republicans screw things up horribly, then sit around whining about what the Dems are going to do to fix it.
Pretty sickening.
And this is not to say that the Dems have covered themselves in glory, far from it. But they've damn sure done more to try to alter this horrible path Bush has lead us down than anyone else.
The sad fact of the matter is that these deaths go unsung, unheard, and unappreciated as a media blitz for the lives lost at VT consumes a nation of consumers. When did it become such a sin to acknowledge that there is still a war going on, and to point out that there is no point to it? Are we saving the Iraqi people? They and the rest of the world don't seem to think so. We've already deposed Saddam. Mission accomplished! We're not fostering stability in the region. Just ask Iran and anyone with a couple of brain cells. If you even bother to mention the war on terror, I'll kindly ask you to go fuck yourself. We've created more terrorists by being in Iraq, not less. Terrorists don't have to use propaganda to get young men and women to join their cause, they just have to point down the street at the soldiers.
Yet the war rages on, absent of purpose or end in sight. A war with no goals or endgame is folly of the highest order.
The reality is that this current administration has put us in a situation where it is acceptable losses for these men and women to die. The 110th Democratic majority Congress is not much better than the Republican majority before it. The people have voiced their dissent with the current political climate in Washington, only to have the representatives we elected to office spit in our faces by kowtowing to the Bushies. Pull out date? Puh-lease!
One of the few people I have respect for on the hill is Dennis Kucinich. At least he has the balls to say what many of us have been thinking for a long time. Washington and the current American system of politics has been in need of a good muck raking for a long time. This war is just one example of why our government needs to be overhauled and purged of sycophants with corporate and political interests. It is high time that the government be for the people, not against them.
Until their is meaningful campaign finance reform, government will be filled with sycophants with corporate and political interests. Those are the groups that finance campaigns. The $25 someone sent to their presidential candidate of choise doesn't amount to a drop of piss in the ocean compared to the millions raised by corporations, Hollywood, or other groups that have loads of cash. You want to get elected. You need money and lots of it. Are you going to donate thousands , or millions, to someone that won't help you in "your time of need"? Soory little guys. Politics and government now belongs to millionaires.
Oracle, Do you feel that the Government and my hard earned tax dollars should go to pay for these candidates that you are talking about.
Who would get this money? Anyone that wants to run?
Would there be criteria to give my tax dollars away to these people?
If so who would make the criteria you?
Are you saying that only sycophants run for president or are they the only one that can win?
I suggest that you run for office so that we do not have to have these sycophants in office. You seem to be the only person you trust.
Or would it work where the second you run, you would become one of these sycophants?
These questions need to be answered.
You are right on some things my anonymous friend. These questions do need to be answered. In the meantime, when it is all said and done, the candidate with the most money wins an overwhelming amount of the time. You and I will never have a chance to look at all the presidential candidates. Vilsack already dropped out because he could not raise enough money to even compete in his home state of Iowa. Bill Richardson is a great candidate. Too bad for him that Obama nad Hillary have a lock on most of the Democratic money. Edawrds will get big donantions from Labor and Lawyer groups. But not the kind of sums the other two will. McCain is probably the best the Republicans have to offer right now. Romney is kicking his ass fundraising. So is Giulliani. So is that what you want my anonymous friend. Elections decided and office holders beholding to wealthy special interest groups? And where in my previous post did I say I was for government financing? Now if you are part of a wealthy special interest group I can certainly understand why you would want things to stay the same.
The reason, my friend, that Vilsack dropped out is because he is a loser. Bill Richardson a great candidate? He can't raise money either. Money comes to the winners. Obama was unknown a year ago. He has the people on his side, and with the people comes the money. Do not kid yourself oracle. If you were writting this a year ago you would say that Obama is a great candidate but has no money. The system isn't broke you just don't like the system.
Are you saying that Obama is an insider and a payed off polotition?
This is crazy talk!
No matter how much money McCain has he would and could not win.
If you are not for my tax dollars financing elections how do you say that it should be done?
To throw out blanket statements and have no solutions is just crying. I suggest that you at least adress some of the questions before you go on tirades like this again.
Another up and coming crony politician makes their views known.
They like all that money just fine. Anyone who dares suggest that something be done to keep it from lining the pockets of such creeps and corrupting our system beyond recognition, as it has, is roundly ridiculed and scorned.
There you have it folks. The players don't want to change the rules.
All the more proof, as if you needed any, that it's crucial to reform them, and soon.
If you hate our country so much why don't you move to communist russia? You are a pessemist sir.
And you're a simple-minded dolt.
Thank God you never achieved any position where you could actually make a difference.
I am so thankful that liberals like you all did not exist in WWII.
How would you all of handled October 14, 1943, when 291 B-17's went on a bombing raid over Germany and 60 were shot down, and 600 men were killed or captured (most all were killed)?
You would have been calling for the end of the war.
Hitler would have won.
We would be a different country, if a country at all.
If it makes you feel bettter to hold such ridiculous notions, then have at it.
But you're dead wrong.
There's absolutely no comparison between the two. Hitler was a demostrated threat. Sadaam, not.
Do I feel bad because lots of bombers went down? Yeah. But I balance that with one of the most horrifyingly brutal attacks in the history of mankind, the firebombing of Dresden, which incinerated nearly every civilian man, woman, and child in that large city and left nothing but smoking rubble.
This despite the fact that the city had slight military value.
Why do you feel that OBAMA is an inside crook that is trying to get over on the people. I for one think that Obama is an outsider that will change Washington for the people.
Not a threat? Twin Towers? Remeber um?
Anon 10:47.
Mind telling us who the heck you're addressing and where that came from?
Anon 2:33
Um... apparently you're the last to hear. THERE WAS ABSOLUTLY ZERO CONNECTION BETWEEN SADAAM HUSSEIN AND THE AL QUEDA ATTACK ON 9-11.
God how amazing and disgusting that there are apparently STILL people who are that ignorant of reality. How can you STILL believe that fiction when even the Liar in Chief has stated himself that there was no connection between Hussein and the attacks of 9-11?
Dope, you call the system corrupt, you say that those that collect money are crony politicians. Obama is collecting money faster than any other candidate. Is he somehow different in your eyes or just another corrupt crony politician?
Your answer should be interesting.
First of all, you have to mistate my words to make a case, as usual.
I never said anyone that "collects" money is corrupt.
That's riciculous.
Obama to his credit gets a huge portion of his financial support from grass-roots small donors, who don't expect some sort of quid pro quo for their donation.
To the extent that he gets large sums from interests, then it remains to be seen what interests they are and how beholden to them he is.
In that light, the pols that do take big bucks from interests that they clearly represent without question, such as state legislators and the fine folks in DC, yeah, it's nothing but a form of legalized bribery in some cases.
You can call it "speech" all you want, but the fact remains, ESPECIALLY during the Bush era, that it's crony capitalism at it's finest, and that the rich pay off the pols and get richer.
It's the best investment around, you pull in a few hundred thousand and reap millions. Where else can you get that sort of return?
You need to get a better sence of judgement. Are you saying Obama only gets money from small individuals? You are high ir drunk or both.
That's not what I'm saying at all, dumb ass.
Try actually reading and then thinking. It won't hurt so much after you get used to it.
What a moron. If you went to school, I'd demand a refund.
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