Down the tubes
Not to mention the sewage coming out of Palin and other McCain surrogate's mouth, the crazy robo-calls, and endless falsehoods. They need Roto-rooter, not Joe the Plumber.
Fact: Joe the plumber has no plans to buy his bosses business as McCain claimed.
Fact: Joe the plumber doesn't hold a plumber's license as required in Ohio.
Fact: Joe the plumber said he'd be making over $250,000 if he bought the business.
Fact: His boss's business actually makes less than half that amount and would benefit from Obama's tax plan, not be taxed more.
posted by The Inside Dope @ 10/18/2008
6 comments
6 Comments:
Yes you are correct, Joe said that he would make over 250K. If Joe bought the business, he might well make 250K. Even if it is not currently making that much, who's to say that he won't be successful and expand the business and make more? Isn't that what it's all about?
A lot of plumbers are not licensed. So what?
You say that Joe does not have plans to buy the business. Says who? Now if buying the business has been in the back of the guy's mind, or if it has been verbalized even in a some small way, why would that be a matter of public record? Let's put it this way- if you have a thought in your mind or an aspiration, would a stranger in Ohio be aware of what you are thinking and know all of your subtle thoughts?
It is shameful how the media has gone so overboard to discredit a private citizen who was minding his own business in his own yard and simply wanted to ask His Holiness a legitimate question.
But now the Obama cult is embarrassed by his "Spread the Wealth" answer so they are trying to smear the poor schmuck who asked a question.
The most amazing thing I've heard about this is that he supposedly said (I only heard it second hand) that while he doesn't make over $250,000 (and thus wouldn't have his own taxes raised), he's concerned about other people who will have their taxes raised under Obama's plan. So the republicans have managed to get people in the bottom 95% to get all concerned and protective of the interests of the top 5%. So Joe the Plumber doesn't like a tax plan that will help him personally because people MUCH better off than him will have to pay SLIGHTLY higher taxes. The republicans are geniuses at the art of persuasion.
Nico,
You touch on a charge that REALLY pisses me off.
The audacity of John McCain, who brought up this poor schmuck "plumber"'s name about 22 times during the debate, having the sheer gall to accuse OBAMA of somehow having brought all this press attention down on him and "attacking" Joe the plumber!!!
First of all, name one "attack" that you've heard from anyone to do with the Obama campaign against "Joe the plumber"????
Name one! They've NEVER attacked this guy!
Is it "attacking" to note what the press discovered? That they guy isn't licensed, has a tax lien against him, is a staple on local right wing talk radio, doesn't really have any plans to buy his bosses business, as McCAin stated, and that the business McCain said he wanted to buy makes around $100,000 a year, which would make them eligible for tax CUTS under Obama's plan, not a tax hike?
These are "attacks"????!!
The freaking FACTS are now "attacks" in the right wing book?
And you'll willingly blame OBAMA for this when it was the PRESS who discovered all of it?
You'll try to blame OBAMA for the attention that was focused on this guy only after McCAIN made him the centerpiece of his entire debate appearance???
You actually believe that OBAMA somehow brought all this attention on a guy who approached OBAMA with a question??? (McCain would have you believe that Obama had gone to the guy's house, ranting and trying to blame Obama for all the media trucks at the guy's house.. NOT true.)
It's just more crazy-making and goofy LIES and bullshit that increasingly makes the McCain campaign look like one of the worst in history.
Joe the plumber WENT TO OBAMA to try to make him look bad somehow on taxes. Joe the plumber LIED to Obama about both his occupation and his plans to buy a business.
McCain not only repeated the lies, but didn't do any checking before hand, otherwise he would have realized that Joe was a fraud.
Joe the plumber was eating all the attention up with a spoon, so the charge that somehow Obama had "attacked" him and brought unwanted press attention to him is just one of the most ridiculous, dishonest, and frankly, desperate bullshit in the long and daily parade of fresh bullshit that substitutes for a campaign for John McCain.
Please, either admit it's a crock of shit, or give me any evidence that any of these charges are remotely true.
They said on the radio that the media was dredging up Joe's financial records and divorce records and they even asked him about signing a petition for the Natural Law Party's ballot access 10 years ago.
It has become hard to make a distinction between the Obama camp and the press. In politics, you know how that works. They work hand in hand and feed them stories to pursue. There is a gray area here, especially as biased as the media is in this election.
Did you notice that Rolling Stone magazine has had his Holiness on the cover 3 times this year, depicting him in a very flattering way. None of the articles were critical. McCain made it on the cover of Rolling Stone once, last issue. But it was not a flattering photo like Obama had, it was a goofy caricature and the article highly critical. I'd like to get some of 'dat fairness in media stuff! But it's the darndest thing, equal time and fair coverage doesn't work both ways. It only applies when liberals want to attack FOX or talk radio.
Tell me, what will Obama's tax plan do for those people who don't work at all and who don't make enough to pay taxes? Are they included in this 95%? I don't know, how does that work? I am talking about the people who sit home and collect their welfare checks and sponge off the government. How will they be affected by Obama's plan?
Of course, collecting a government check without doing a day's work to earn it has come naturally for Obama. Give me "Joe the Plumber" any day!
nicodemus,
Neither Obama's nor McCain's tax plans have anything to do with people on welfare. I don't know why you brought that up. Welfare has nothing to do with these tax plans or with Joe the plumber. The difference between the two candidates' tax plans is this: under McCain's plan, if you're really rich, you get a big tax cut, and if you're middle class, you get a modest tax cut. Under Obama's plan, if you make over $250,000 in income in a year, your taxes go up. If you make less than that (like Joe the plumber), you get a larger tax break than you'd get under McCain's plan.
In an effort to make Obama's tax plan look bad, Joe had to greatly exaggerate his income so that he could pretend that he was going to be hurt by the plan. Obama's whole point in the interview was that people who make less than $250,000 need more tax relief than people who make more, so those are the ones that he's going to help. McCain's plan helps you most if you are rich, Obama's plan helps you if you are not rich. Obama's plan helps the real Joe the plumber, not the fantasy Joe the plumber.
McCain has been collecting a "government check" for a longer time than Obama. And what do you mean by saying that getting a government check without doing "a day's work to earn it" has "come naturally for Obama"? McCain was a poor student who (like W.) barely made it through school, and probably only passed because of his daddy's influence. Obama got his law degree from the top law school in the nation, became editor of their well respected journal, and went on to teach at another top law school, were his colleagues included some of the most famous conservative judges, lawyers and legal theorists in the country. Please tell me how getting a check for doing no work "comes naturally" to Obama.
Maybe you should start a public boycott Rolling Stone for their biased news coverage. I might join you--they didn't include my favorite group on their list of the 50 Greatest Rock Bands of All Time.
Amen Saul.
Sometimes Nico's latent racism and dim view of "negros", as he puts it, seeps out.
Your account of Obama's tax plan is spot on, though you'd never know it if you swallowed the gross distortions and outright lies told about it by Grandpa John and Caribou Barbie.
Maybe this document from the Tax Policy Center at the Brookings Institute might straighten Nico, and any others, out about the reality of the two plans and their effects on various income levels.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/411693_CandidateTaxPlans.pdf
Scroll down to the last chart, the comparison of changes in after-tax income for the various quintiles of income earners under Obama and McCain's plans.
Notice just how horribly skewed McCain's is towards those making literally hundreds of millions a year! The top 10% make out like bandits, the other 90%? Not so much.
Obama's plan only reduces after tax income to those who are way, WAY able to afford it. Hell, they probably wouldn't even notice it.
They might have to put off redoing the interior of their Gulfstream jet... but somehow I can't pity them. They'll still be putting up their dogs in $500 a day spa kennals while they enjoy their posh resorts.
And maybe Cartier or mega-yacht builders might feel the pinch, but they've been going great guns for the past decade or more. They can take it.
They've been so busy "redistributing the wealth" from taxpayers and the treasury to the top 1% that they can weather the storm.
If you read the top of the document, you'll see that Obama's plan brings in far more revenue, while cutting taxes to far more people, than McCain's plan, which would rob the government of over a trillion dollars.
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