May 29, 2008

Republican Christians, contradiction in terms?

Very interesting.

13 Comments:

At 5/29/2008 9:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

That piece was spot on. While no political party can claim to be the "Christian" party and not look like a bunch of lunatics, it's clear to anyone who is honest that the goals and aspirations of the Democratic party are far more aligned with Biblical teachings than the decidedly uncharitable views of the right.

This has made it all the more disgusting to hear the Republicans claiming to be the party of God and trying to smear Democrats as immoral monsters.

If there's immorality going on, it's far more likely to be at the request of the right.

 
At 5/30/2008 12:18 AM, Blogger The Inside Dope said...

I'm sure it's not the hardest case to make that Republicans are almost bizarre in the vast contradiction between what they espouse and what they SAY they believe.

Somehow they've taken the Bible and gotten out of it that we shouldn't have to pay taxes and at the very least, not a dime should go to fellow citizens, but it's just dandy if billions go literally unaccounted for in a fool-hardy war of choice which has killed and maimed hundreds of thousands and displace millions.

What would Jesus do indeed.

 
At 5/30/2008 7:18 AM, Anonymous jim mowen said...

What an unbelievably silly post.

Of course God would be and I am sure, is, very upset with those getting rich off of Christianity. I expect that He is also very upset with those who are getting rich off of Global Warming and frauding the Government (through Katrina, etc.).

I really do not know what Party speaks for God, I assume neither. God cares about issues and I know for certain that God is not in favor of,

Abortion - killing what He created.

Gay Marriage - He is quite clear why He created man and woman and that He created marriage for man and woman.

As for welfare - I am certain as the post points out that God cares deeply for those in need. However, it is quite debatable whether God would condone our nanny-state/ welfare-state as the means to assist them.

I do not wish to bore you, but would be happy to discuss how God might address a slew of issues,

Death Penalty
Environment
Gun Control
Taxation - you name it.

If you'd like specific scripture on each issue (to confirm God's position), I am happy to provide this as well.

Thanks for the forum!

 
At 5/30/2008 10:55 PM, Anonymous nooncat said...

I'll be happy to take on the Almighty's position on capital punishment. Let's start with the first murder: Cain killing Abel.

In this instance, God is directly judge, jury and sentencer. The punishment? God put Cain to death on the spot...no, wait - God did something else. Cain was sentenced to exile, but was given a mark so that others wouldn't harm him. No death penalty at all. That very well demonstrates how God dealt directly with murderers from the very start.

I await your rebuttal.

 
At 5/31/2008 10:28 PM, Anonymous tiger woods said...

Genesis 9:6
Whoever sheds the blod of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man.

Numbers 35:12-18
.....Or if he struck him with a wooden object in the hand, by which he might die, and as a result he died, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death.

Exodus 21:24
"an eye for an eye"

Nooncat - thank you for the opportunity to share.

Jesus certainly taught us to 'turn the other cheek', which often gets misunderstood into this argument. Jesus was talking about retaliation, not about real consequences to real actions, real consequences to breaking one of His Commandments.

Why God did not put forth Capital Punishment against Cain, I do not know. I certainly cannot understand the mind of God.

I can, however, read His Word and it does tell me that God does allow for Capital Punishment.

Thank you for the thought. I am happy to discuss others.

 
At 5/31/2008 10:49 PM, Blogger The Inside Dope said...

Yeah, I guess those "Ten Commandment" things, with the "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and all is just quiant anymore.

You're so right.

But it's not nice to try to hide your desire for useless revenge and bloodlust behind some trivial bible passage.

Killing prisoners has never solved anything, reduced crime, or improved a single thing. But it satisfies the old blood lust and craving for revenge.

 
At 6/01/2008 6:59 AM, Anonymous tiger woods said...

I am sorry TID, I am not here to debate your OPINIONS, just God's positions.

I'll take His Word over your opinions any day.

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However, if I were to address your rather poor argument, I would suggest that having the punishment take place 13 - 20 YEARS after the crime is certainly no deterent.

 
At 6/01/2008 8:37 PM, Anonymous nooncat said...

Context. Keep it in mind here.

The "eye for eye" punishments were to promote leniency. Before that, blood feuds had become the rule, such as described by Lamech in Genesis 4:23-24: "For I have killed a man for wounding me, even a young man for hurting me. If Can shall be avenged sevenfold, then Lamech seventy-sevenfold." "Eye for eye" scaled back punishments, decreeing that one was not allowed to do worse to another than what had been done to them.

Eventually the Sanhedrin took over matters of sentencing for crimes. And the laws set up for capital crimes made it nearly impossible to convict one of a death penalty offense. The Babylonian Talmud describes it thus: "If a council of judges sentences a person to death once in even seventy years, that entire council is corrupt and should be replaced."

As you know, by the time of Jesus of Nazareth, the Hebrews had done away with the death penalty altogether, save for vigilante justice outside of the Sanhedrin. This is why the council had to appeal to the Roman governer to execute Jesus: because for Jews capital punishment no longer existed.

If, in the Sermon on the Mount (or Plain, depending on which Gospel version one chooses), Jesus meant to uphold "real consequences for real actions, real consequences to breaking one of His Commandments," and that the death penalty is an appropriate consequence, then recall Matthew 5:21-22: "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.' But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment." (A tricky verse there - what would be an appropriate cause to be angry with another murderously?)

Thanks for your time.

 
At 6/02/2008 4:38 AM, Blogger The Inside Dope said...

So you're talking directly with God now, eh?

I should have known. Has he commanded you to raise millions to build a 90 ft statue of yourself or he'll "call you home", as Oral Roberts once assured his followers?

Or does he discuss which Republican candidate you should support?

I'm more like Son of Sam. I talk to my dog. And I'll take his word over yours any day.

 
At 6/02/2008 7:17 AM, Anonymous tiger woods said...

nooncat,

You speak of context and then you take Matthew 5:21 and on totally out of context. This verse was about DEGREE, not murder.

Jesus is saying that it is easy to say, 'Do not murder,' but how many of of curse our neighbor or live with anger issues.

Jesus is saying, "don't just say, 'I did not kill anyone today, thus I am ok with God' but look deeper at how you treat people at every moment. Do not deal with anger and hate, do not call someone a name (Raca), etc.'"

This verse has absolutely NOTHING to do with the death penalty.

Good dialogue though - thanks.


TID - I really don't care to debate issues of faith with you. However, you might want to listen to 'David Berkowitz' as he is a Christian now and might have something to say that would be of value to you.

 
At 6/02/2008 6:52 PM, Blogger The Inside Dope said...

Mowen, if you want to get into the weeds arguing your "faith", then find someone else. Nooncat seems to be doing just fine.

Your right wing brand of "christianity" isn't recognizable to me as anything resembling the values of christian charity and sense of justice which I was taught were the bedrock of what Jesus taught.

 
At 6/02/2008 8:38 PM, Anonymous tiger woods said...

I have done little other than quote a few verses, TID. I do not know why you wish to take these as "right wing brand of Christianity."

Thanks.

 
At 6/03/2008 2:12 AM, Blogger The Inside Dope said...

What you've done, and what you will continue to do until hell freezes over, is to interpret various bits of the Bible to comport with your right wing ideology.

This is why religion and politics makes for endless insanity.

You take a book written by who knows who, rewritten and revised countless times, mainly with the idea of trying to keep the masses in line, and then subject the often arcane text to any one of hundreds of thousands of possible interpretations to use it as "proof" of your point of view, and you end up with the history we've enjoyed.

Endless war, divisiveness, charlatans using religion to gain political power, brutality, bigotry, and death.

There's an excellent reason the founders sought to keep religion and government apart. The reason should be apparent to anyone.

Someone with an opposite view from you could sit here and argue with you and endlessly quote scripture until you were both too old to type.

Actually, I'd prefer that. But it wouldn't accomplish a thing.

 

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